Atheists And Christians Community Blog - Latest Comments in Poets, priests, and politicians.

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

boomSLANG — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:02:55 -0000

Karla: "The Bible says that God wants NONE to perish. So I don't know where you find that he wants to send anyone to hell."

(part of the thread seems to be stuck on italics)

My response: If "hell" exists and all non-christians(most of humanity) will end up there, then whether or not this alleged biblegod "wants" this to occur, is besides the point.

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Mike aka MonolithTMA — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 13:08:10 -0000

I've often wondered, if God exists, what does he think of apologetics. I'm pretty sure he can defend himself.

I don't reject God because of what someone says about him, I reject exclusivity because of that, but not God.

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Mike aka MonolithTMA — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 13:03:54 -0000

Well, the issue for me has always been it is far too often the Christians themselves who make the "THIS is Christianity". My faith is the One True Faith ™.

The branches that obsess with hell think that the ones who don't believe like they do are destined for hell along with all the other heathens.

Personally I don't reject Christianity or theism in general because of what some teach. My rejection is personal in that I don't experience anything in my life that I would identify as God. Will that change in the future? Certainly it's possible.

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Wordgazer — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:26:24 -0000

Believe it or not, God does want people to think for themselves. If that results in them coming up with different views of what a passage means, God is far less threatened by that than we are!

For God to really be God, He/She (God is both, and neither), has to be bigger than all the boxes we put Him in. But there's no reason to just toss out the idea of God altogether just because people can't agree about God.

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Wordgazer — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:22:16 -0000

As we discussed above, there are branches of Christianity that don't believe this. There are ways of reading the Bible that don't result in this interpretation.

Why lump it all together and claim THIS is Christianity? And then reject all of Christianity because of one view?

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Mike aka MonolithTMA — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:00:30 -0000

I apologize, I should have made it clear that traditional, conservative Evangelical Christianity views those verses as referring to the path to either eternal bliss or damnation, not all hold that view.

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Wordgazer — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 17:12:56 -0000

People are so sure that parable is referring to heaven and hell. Why?

Jesus could be talking about destructive lifestyles and how many ways there are to ruin your life.

I find that many times what people are rejecting isn't necessarily following Jesus, but dyed-in-the-wool Christian ways of thinking that never question what they've been taught.

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Mike aka MonolithTMA — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 00:07:02 -0000

Thank for your comments, Darwin. I know some wonderful Christians, some of them friends and family members, and it also angers and frustrates me when I see others who claim to be Christians making them look bad.

I know many Christians and atheists who are more intelligent, better read, and more articulate than me. I try not to let it bother me too much. ;-)

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Darwin — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:55:41 -0000

The strange thing about dogmatic fundamentalists is that they attempt to apply the rules they are pleased to live by to everyone else. Then they become frustrated because no one seems to treasure the rules they are beholding. And where they get all those rules, who knows? They seem a bit "extra-biblical".

Funny thing is... I consider myself a Christian (hopefully Jesus does too). However, I am certain that my sh*t stinks. I am also quite certain that LOVE requires freedom of choice. How would being an A-hole inspire people to love Jesus? Man I'm getting ticked just thinking about all of this... Sorry, I do not see myself ever embracing atheism. That's my choice. And yet, I respect your choice.

And while I am a little bitter about admitting it, many Atheists are more inteligent, more articulate, and better looking than me. I am especially sensitive about the better looking part. Of course, my worldview holds that God loves us all equally. That makes me feel a little better ; ]

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

RD Miksa — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 17:03:36 -0000

Good Day to All,

I apologize that this comment is off topic to the specific subject under discussion, but as it is related to the blog as a whole, I thought it generally appropriate to post.

In celebration of the 150th anniversary of Charles Darwin’s The Origin of the Species as well as the 200th anniversary of the birth of Charles Darwin himself—and just in time for Darwin Day—I would like to invite all readers of this excellent blog to read The Evolutionary Wager: How the Ideas of Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins and Evolution Itself Negate Atheism and Point to Christianity at www.theevolutionarywager.bl....

Any comments, reviews or e-mails are greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

RD Miksa

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Mike aka MonolithTMA — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:29:33 -0000

It's the unblinking certainty that still amazes me. Occasionally I do see someone say something like "If I'm interpreting scripture correctly, then this is the way things are." , but it's usually "That is un-Christian", "That is un-biblical", "That person or group is doing Christianity wrong, this is how it really is" It fully explains why the goats in the parable of the sheep and the goats seemed to have no idea they were goats, and the sheep were equally surprised!

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Mike aka MonolithTMA — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:54:46 -0000

Ahhh, yes, the wonders of auto fill.

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

DB — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 04:55:33 -0000

Sorry, the comment above was me, DB. I must have been in "official" mindset since I commented from work lol. "Autofill" failed me!

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

David — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 23:24:43 -0000

This entire discussion is exactly why I cannot take Christian arguments from any angle seriously, especially not based off a quote from the Bible. I will be more convinced in the arguments of the religion when they can decide what exactly they believe. Of course each Christian will tell you that their truth is the right truth. You ask 100 different Christians the same question and you get 20 different answers depending on what region they live in and all 100 will say they are "right". One cannot argue a "universal truth" when it is hardly universal. I doubt this is the way "God" would have wanted his followers to celebrate him.

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Mike aka MonolithTMA — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:29:55 -0000

It certainly could have been inspirational to the author of Revelation.

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Garret G — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:52:08 -0000

Yeah, I should have led to it a couple of verses earlier-v22 mentions the new heavens and new earth which will 'endure'- and the implication of the 'worm' and 'fire' is that they are everlasting. It just hits me as a mirror image of Revelation there, and would seem to me to imply that the foundational concepts of Heaven and Hell (post-resurrection) and the new earth are there prefigured hundreds of years prior to the NT. I could be reading into it, but eventually will get around to seeing what the scholars think.
Thanks!

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Mike aka MonolithTMA — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:03:48 -0000

Well, it's certainly another of many verses about God's enemies or the enemies of God's people being decimated. Is it evidence of hell or a belief in hell? Not that I'm aware of, but that's not saying it isn't.

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Garret G — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:41:18 -0000

Thanks- regarding Hell in the OT- what do you make of Isaiah 66:24?
thanks-peace!

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Mike aka MonolithTMA — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:49:06 -0000

And thanks for your comments. :-)

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Mike aka MonolithTMA — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:48:10 -0000

There are many Christians who don't believe in a literal hell at all, and since it magically appeared in the New Testament I'm not surprised.

98% may be an exaggeration, but 2% of billions or trillions of lives would definitely qualify for "only a few find it."

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Garret G — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:31:49 -0000

Hi Mike,
Thanks for having this forum for discussion. The point I made above was valid- he made a comment that you have demonstrated to be theologically incorrect. I merely asked for precision.
98%? None of us knows this to be fact. Most people seem to parody hell as a place of physical torture, as though God inflicts pain on them. Weeping and gnashing of teeth implies regret and anger (this comes from within). Fire and darkness represent judgement- are they literal? There are good reasons to think not.

Why would I think a baby is 'wicked?' Wicked tends to refer to behavior, not inherent falleness.
Yes we are all born as sinners- I don't have a problem believing this considering that children need to be trained to be anything but selfish. All of us parents can appreciate the 'terrible twos'- inborn in all of us is the desire to seek self gratification at all costs, and we despise authority at a very young age.
Thanks

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Mike aka MonolithTMA — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:26:59 -0000

Hi Karla, God's foreknowledge makes this difficult. I know we've discussed this before on your blog. Before someone is born God knows whether or not someone is going to hell, the gate is narrow, thus God created the majority of people fully knowing they were destined for everlasting torment. They don't even have to be murderers or rapists, they can just steal a cookie and be destined for hell.

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Mike aka MonolithTMA — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:54:27 -0000

For me, yes, yes, and yes. Another good movie about missionaries is The Mission.

I respect missionaries who actually help people. If they are truly helping people they could be doing in the name of Zeus for all I care.

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Karla — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:46:11 -0000

I have addressed these topics at some length on my blogspot. I invite you to check them out. The Bible says that God wants NONE to perish. So I don't know where you find that he wants to send anyone to hell. Please I'd appreciate your thoughts on what I have written on these topics. Just see the subject list on the right side of my blog.

Re: Poets, priests, and politicians.

Karla — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:41:19 -0000

Maybe your looking in the wrong place to see examples of Christianity being lived out. Have you read about the Chinese Christians of the underground church? Or the Moravians who came to America? Or have you seen the movie The End of the Spear?