DISQUS

Doubting Foo · 10 months ago

The best I can describe it is as a feeling. A few times it felt as if I was on drugs, but mostly just a sense that he might be in the room or something. Probably the oddest thing I ever thought was that all homeless people begging for money were actually God testing me (I still give a few bucks when I have the cash).

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 10 months ago

The parable of the sheep and the goats was always forefront in my mind. Jesus was in the least of these, the most unfortunate in the world.

That sounds strange to me now, since he could end their suffering at any time.

Dad · 10 months ago

For me it was almost always music.

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 10 months ago

Me too. Music still gives me those feelings. Maybe it is God, but then God would be as universal as music is. Not a bad idea.

Tiim · 9 months ago

Hello here too ;)
Landscape does it for me, being stuck as I am in Scotland.

There was a particularly spiritual moment up at my favourite glen watching the sun rise early one autumn morning, when I just wanted to sing, but knew not the words; to wave arms, but feared looking like a prat. Beautiful; I wanted to say "God enjoyed sticking his finger in this valley to make it", but theology got in the way of God being some kind of "being" that would do such a thing. Maybe now I'm a bit more reconciled to that, but there's still a lot of frustration at inability to express thoughts happening. Either way I regard it as a "thin place" in the Celtic tradition - somewhere where, sometime when, one feels close to God, whatever God may be.

It was a bit of a breakthrough when I realised that God *is* "as experienced", so I have to congratulate you on asking the most apposite question.

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 9 months ago

Thanks Tiim, or Tim. :-) Scotland eh, shouldn't you be a good Presbyterian? ;-) I grew up Presbyterian U.S.A and became a Christian close to the time I left it. I'm still on their books though.

I don't know why I didn't mention nature, but I do get the feeling of awe in the right spots, the same with music.

We all experience everything differently right down to the way we view and taste and smell. Some people like to act like there is a magic formula for experiencing the divine, yet people in all walks of life, every corner of the earth, experience the divine or what they may call the divine, differently.

I'm glad you came to your realization. Thanks for posting.

Karla · 9 months ago

Well, you've already read my testimonies concerning tangibly experiencing God. I've seen an arm grow an inch and a half before my eyes when we prayed for it to lengthen. I've been instantly healed of a major sinus and chest infection. I've felt the presence of God on me so strong it felt like electricity surging peacefully through me. I have felt my hands tingle and pulsate for three days after someone prayed for me to receive more fire of the Holy Spirit. I have close friends who have experienced miracles. I have received prophetic ministry that was exactly on point. I have given prophetic words that have ministered life. I have had knowledge that I could not have known otherwise about things except that it be God speaking to me. I'm just little ole me, no one special. God wants to talk to us, and be with us and let us experience the glorious things He has for us.

All of you have had real spiritual experiences. Keep an open mind that God has been talking to you. He has been giving you awe. He has inspired you through nature and music and friends and family and sermons and His Word and books and whatever.

boomSLANG · 9 months ago

I have "experienced God" by spending a great many years believing(in retrospect,"pretending") that "God" was inspiring me through nature and music and friends and family and His Word, yada, yada.

In other words, I "experienced God" by actively believing that "God" was a real, actual being---one whom I could interact with, just as all Theists claim they are interacting with their respective deities. When I finally became courageous enough to stop pretending - as in, when I was truly prepared to accept what the consequences/differences might be if I stopped believing - I found precisely what I had suspected(feared): There was no difference, whatsoever. The world around me...i.e.."friends", "family", "nature"...everything, behaves exactly the same with "no God"(or lack of belief in God). Coincidence? I don't think so.

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 9 months ago

That sounds almost exactly like my experience. We were pretending and not even realizing it I think, or maybe somewhere in the dark recesses of our befuddled brains we did know it. When I first admitted to myself couldn't shake the part of The Wizard of Oz out of my head, where they pulled back the curtain, to reveal just a man, in my case it wasn't even that.

kinggame · 9 months ago

I can understand where you are coming from, but I don't know why you would think the world would function differently depending on whether or not you believe. Somewhere around 1 billion people in the world are without any religion, yet the world keeps spinning. I believe in God, but if I didn't I can't imagine thinking anything would change physically. I just don't think one person matters like that.

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 9 months ago

Well, some Christians believe that God changes things for them, and that bad things will happen if they disobey him. Things going wrong? There must be some hidden sin that you have not confessed. That is what boomSLANG is referring to.

I'm a year out of Christianity and my world has yet to fall apart, I have yet to go on a raping and pillaging spree, like some Christians think will happen if they "fall away."

boomSLANG · 9 months ago

Precisely......thank you, Mike.

We are taught, via the bible and the church, that when/if we "believe on Jesus Christ", we become "blessed" and are shown the "mercy of God", yada, yada. Again, for *Me*.....'no change; no difference, whatsoever, minus the "belief". As a nonbeliever, good and bad things happen at approximately the same statistical rate as before.

Gary · 9 months ago

I go back to the language that I and other Christians around me used: "I feel God is saying..." Just like you mentioned above, it was the conviction that God was making some kind of impression, bringing forth words of wisdom and guidance. Everything that you mentioned experiencing was true to me - I had high moments in worship which I could describe as transcendent. My conversion experience was momentous, an emotional high going straight from unbelief to belief during a worship service. God appeared very real and true to me, a reality that could not be denied, which is why I have hung on to a small amount of belief until very recently.

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 9 months ago

I keep finding that I am not alone in what I experienced and my journey since de-converting.

Thanks for your thoughts!

nerdiah · 9 months ago

I had a lot of those things, thoughts popping into my head etc, but the one that convinced me was that I had a charismatic experience. You know that thing where they all have the pastor lay hands on them and then they fall over? I was as surprised as anyone to find out that they weren't faking it.

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 9 months ago

Interesting. Thanks for sharing! I never had an experience like that, though there were times where I really thought I was experiencing God's presence.

Karla · 9 months ago

I have heard tell of atheists who have come into such meetings expecting it all to be fake only to find themselves under the power of God in a supernatural way.

I have been around this kind of thing a lot in the last few years and I was skeptical at first even as a Christian that people were faking it and then I saw someone who thought for sure it was all fake experience the power of God and I saw other things that gave testimony to it's authenticity. Then I experienced God's Presence in a way that is best described as electrifying, just currents of power surging through me. Not strong enough to have an external sign of it as some were experiences, but certainly undeniable.

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 9 months ago

As a Christian, I was in charismatic situations, but it was always uncomfortable, given the verses about praying in private and especially tongues being special and not some sort of group gibberish-fest.

nerdiah · 9 months ago

I think chanting (speaking in tongues) and psychedelic music (or how the music gets towards that part of the service) may help bring it on.

nerdiah · 9 months ago

That's it, like electricity. I felt a tingling sensation and numbness in my hands, and I couldn't move parts of my body (hence I fell over). It was a very powerful thing, and I was certain after that that I'd never question the existence of God. I was struck by a sense that this amazing thing was only scratching the surface, like God had not so much touched me as kind of tapped me with His pinky, if that makes sense :-)

Considering how good I felt after, and how positive my outlook become for about a fortnight, I'd be really interested in finding out how it's done. I've seen work on inducing a spiritual feeling in people using psilocybin mushrooms and there's a fascinating T.E.D. talk about a woman who had a stroke and how that effected her (Google will find it). I have also read about Hindu kundalini (sp?) practices that give the same effect, and I know someone who has induced it in himself just by listening to music (not spiritual music).

Unfortunately I'm yet to replicate the effect. It was once only for me.

David · 9 months ago

I suppose the most experiential thing would be conversion 2 years ago. In an instant, I was a brand new person. Prior to then I saw God as boring, prayer as boring, and the Bible difficult to understand. I saw for the first time in my life Christ as precious and God as holy and kind for sending a savior. I had always assumed we deserved a savior. (Hence the questions of what about those who never hear?) -- but I saw for the first time, we don't deserve a savior -- we deserve to go to hell. I've never been able to get back to exactly that point of enlightenment -- it's quite a struggle. I've since learned that we receive merely a moment of truly knowing God, and spend the rest of our lives seeking him, after we've seen and felt that the Lord is good.

I could never go back now. I know God is sovereign over salvation, so I try not to worry about people being converted. (Though that is very difficult sometimes, especially with family members who don't believe.)

But it is interesting to see unbelievers and "former Christians" talk. I mean... it's not something you can ever really convince someone of, because it's between you and God. Only God can save and reveal himself. Sometimes that's a frustrating experience.

Like... if I could just convince you that I've experienced something real, and you're missing it... and it's not in my head... and it's not like what others say they've experienced...

But you have no way of differentiating, so again, it's up to the Lord.

I hope that gives you what you were looking for.

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 9 months ago

Thanks David, I wish you well in your journey and do not wish to be discouraging, but several years ago I would have written a very similar response, saying things like "I could never go back now." and "we don't deserve a savior -- we deserve to go to hell."

You said "I've since learned that we receive merely a moment of truly knowing God, and spend the rest of our lives seeking him, after we've seen and felt that the Lord is good."

I'm curious, how did you learn this? I know people who claim to truly experience God's presence very tangibly daily.

boomSLANG · 9 months ago

David: I could never go back now. I know God is sovereign over salvation, so I try not to worry about people being converted. (Though that is very difficult sometimes, especially with family members who don't believe.)

Hi,

A couple of thoughts---if, as you say, "God is sovereign over salvation", then this seems to imply that the "saved" are predestined, which, subsequently, would make free agency a lie at worst; an illusion at best......would it not? I think so, but if you can explain it a different way, I'd be curious to see such an explanation.

As far as "family members who don't believe".... again, if "God is sovereign over salvation", then aren't you surrendering to the notion that "God's Will" trumps our own; that "God" knows best, and thus, there is a Divine Purpose for your family members who don't believe? If so, then I fail to see how being disappointed in the final ruling of "God" is consistant with honoring the ruling of "God". How can accepting the ruling of "God" be "difficult", if you truly believe it is "best"? That concept has always caused a bit of cognative dissonance with me.

Terrie · 9 months ago

Mike I came from a family that didn't go to church but I have always felt the presence of God. My mother committed suicide when I was 2 years old. My father remarried and he and my step-mother became alcoholics. My childhood was difficult but when ever I needed comfort God would give me signs that he was there and that he cared for me. One Christmas after my drunk parents went to bed. I sat crying looking out my bedroom window and an angel appeared. I know it was an angel because I could see through him. I didn't start going to church on a regular basis until after I got married. I have had so many wonderful experiences since I received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I have been given the gift of being able to pray for people and have them fall or faint from feeling the power of God. One time a man that other people were trying to pray over was scared and resisted. I walked over and said you are afraid of falling but you don't have to stand up to receive prayer you can sit in this chair. Then I prayed for him he immediately slid out of the chair to the floor. I could go on and on but then it would sound like I am blowing my horn. All I can say Mike is I know that I know that I know that God loves you!

boomSLANG · 9 months ago

"..... I know that I know that I know that God loves you!"

' Not a particularly useful statement, except of course, to the already-convinced. Nonetheless, isn't it interesting that Christians know that they know that they know that their biblegod loves everyone - including, even nonbelievers - but yet, the god whom they speak on the behalf of (for some reason) fails at getting the nonbeliever to "know" it?

In my view, when a believer tells a nonbeliever, "God loves you!!!", it is an implicit accusation that the nonbeliever is culpable in some way, unless the one making the statement will concede that the "God" in question doesn't want the nonbeliever to believe for some reason. (And that's rare, but I've actually seen it before)

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 9 months ago

People that love me talk to me, God might want to speak up.

Terrie · 9 months ago

Maybe it's because you don't understand Agape Love. It is completely different then human love. I suggest that everyone reads "The Shack" . It is on the best seller list and it opens the doors for all kinds of great debates.

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 9 months ago

I fully understand the four Greek words for love. What could agape possibly have to do with God not talking to me? Is this the unconditional, self sacrificing love silent treatment?

Terrie · 9 months ago

My comment was a response to boom slang. I didn't see your comment - Sorry. I can't explain why you haven't heard or felt the presence of God. All I can do is to tell you what I would do. I would say to God "If you are real and if you love me then please pour your Holy Spirit over me and fill me with your love and your Holy Spirit. Touch me the way you did the disciples. When I go to sleep tonight let my dreams be controlled by you. Dear God show me - open my eyes - make yourself known to me. Thank you - Amen."

Mike I will keep in touch and again I am sorry that I did'nt see your comment.

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 9 months ago

The whole reason I'm an atheist is that I groveled before the cross daily praying almost exactly that prayer with no response.

boomSLANG · 8 months ago

Sadly, just as I suspected: Blame the nonbeliever...a la...."you don't understand Agape Love"...or..."you didn't word your prayers correctly"..or..."you weren't sincere", yada, yada, blah, blah.

@ Mike,

'Sorry Mike, if the above sounds antagonistic, but this reasoning sickens me. As if I wasn't sincere; as if I didn't try multiple versions and methods of "prayer" over the course of 30 years.

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 8 months ago

It's cool, boomSLANG. I get battered by enough Christian attacks that I know what you mean.

david · 8 months ago

well...to begin with every person is different and for me one experience is not the same as your. now i experience God every day in my life..when i wake up in the morning in not th saem thing to know that that your are alive that feel life within you..thanks to him..i experience him when its rain..when the wind blows to my face. is not feelings i just conviction that he is there with you no matter what even do. i dt see him but i know not by luck or because im good person it just because he is GOD...

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 8 months ago

Thanks David. That's kind of how I used to feel too.

boomSLANG · 8 months ago

"....when i wake up in the morning in not th saem thing to know that that your are alive that feel life within you..thanks to him..i experience him when its rain..when the wind blows to my face."

I contend that such experiences..i.e..the wind blowing, the rain, a beautiful sunset, a little kitty-cat, etc., are simply examples of Nature. Notwithstanding, I fully support your right to believe that a "God" is at the bottom of it all. Where you lose my support, however, is when people promote their personal beliefs in such beings as "Universal Truth", especially with accompanying threats of bodily harm for non-compliance to their beliefs.

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 8 months ago

Agreed, boomSLANG.

JEB · 8 months ago

Hi Mike
JEB here again. I'm curious to know if you're aware of the retired bishop of the Episcopalian church of NJ, John Shelby Spong. He still calls himself a christian and is appreciative of Jesus but in a way that is anathema to most christians. Here's a clip of a talk he gave and while I don't agree with him totally I appreciate his forward thinking about this whole god thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XL8LvaJ9Rc&feat... As I've said, he really ticks off the more literalistic kind of christians so I like him for that reason alone. Oh, I know, they've got a special microwave in hell for me too. LOL

Mike aka MonolithTMA · 8 months ago

I've been aware of Spong for years, but never really checked out what he had to say. I've heard from Christian sources that he was atheist, yet that clip would not make me think that. Perhaps a panentheist, but not an atheist. Interesting stuff.